"Because of the disorderly conduct of Joe Gibbs, it forces me to seek physician musically." -- Joseph Hill, 21 April 1996, Burlington Vermont.

Jim Dooley conducted the following interview for 400 Years.


You have spent a lot of time touring in the last few years ­p; maybe this is not a good question to be asking this morning with bus problems ­p; but do you like life on the road?

Well, yeah, because... See joining the rough and the soft together, just make it jolly.

A good mix. It must be strange when you get back to Mannings Hill though. It is very different from life on the road...

Yeah, but I am always expecting it, because I know what it is.

You said you were still doing a little bit of farming in Jamaica?

For health sake you have to farm.

Is this just for yourself?

Yeah, just for myself.

On the new album the rhythm tracks were recorded by Dub Mystic (Culture's current touring band), how do you find that different from working with Kingston musicians?

There is no difference, so long as you know what you want then you can get it.

Tell me a little about the song "One Stone" what inspired you to write that song?

See that is a lot of inspiration, starts from simple instance. For instance it is about me, it's about you, it's about us. You know that "One Stone" it's based on the open jealousy of people making progressive moves, and jealousy most times comes out of the minds of sluggards. Because you cannot be of a trying mind and find a space in the same mind to be jealous and still have a space to be a sluggard, because three things are three major disease of mind power ­p; you have got good diseases and you have got bad diseases ­p; but then the will power of you now is the antidote. That is the antidote I use to make the song.

You told me you have a new single coming out on the Gorgon label. It's going to be "Mr. Sluggard"?

That's right.

And that will be out soon?

Oh Yeah.

And a video? Have you started any work on a video?

Yes, that could be anywhere anytime. I'm like a wanted man!

I want to rewind a bit back to your days with the Soul Defenders. How did you first get together back in the late 60s?

It's like in the late 60s as you know we all were young, young lads moving about. You could well say the days of your discovery, because each child grew from stage to stage. I'm no different from any other child. I grow from stage to stage too. So in that time we were seeking for interesting things to occupy our activity at the time and the best thing we could find to do was to play some music, because it's in us.

Were all of you guys living in the same area?

At that time, yeah.

How was your experience at Coxsone, did you like the man? Did you get along with the man?

I love the man. I love the man. See, I am not a person who is easy to be influenced, especially by speech. Because speech is like a thin soup ­p; can stretch ever so far.
Largest radio station you can find in the world is R.L.M., Radio Labber Mouth. I don't try to make an interview with such radio personnel, because they always walk away with the wrong news ­p; even make up ideas for themself.

I have heard you sing on two songs, one called "Behold" and the other "Take Me Girl," did you record any other lead vocals when you were there?

Yes.

Stuff that is still in the vaults?

There were three of them.

I know you were involved in recording a lot of rhythm tracks. How many rhythm tracks do you figure the Soul Defenders recorded for Coxsone?

Quite a lot. The reason I could not count them straight off now, you would have to remember them item after item, tracks after tracks, but I know it's a whole lot.

Now did you guys record at any other studios or just Studio One?

In that time?

Yeah.

No, just Studio One. It was in my later days, higher up in the 70's, like 78-9, that I had a chance to use up Treasure Isle studio, which was being occupied by Mrs. Sonia Pottinger.

Was Burning Spear at Studio One when you were there? Or was he there before or after?

In and out, because, in between myself and Burning Spear... It was the other night myself and him were in New York City sitting down for a little chat, and the old days coming out, and we could remember there is a little corner in Linstead that we used to go. I used to be in the band, he used to be the singer that comes up for rehearsal etc. etc. That's a little corner in Jamaica that we call Africa ­p; that is in Linstead. In that time no police would ever think to go there. Yet, there isn't bad boys, but he know he isn't welcome, and there isn't a reason for him to be there.

You followed with a few years that you played in hotels on the North Coast?

Oh Yeah.

I heard somewhere that it was Albert's idea to form a vocal group.

Well, somewhat yes. Because, I wasn't after the idea of forming a group because I thought from the day I was born that I am strong enough to learn to depend on me. So, because of that I am a guitarist, I'm a bass player, I'm a drummer, I'm a percussionist, I'm a lead vocalist, I'm a harmonizer, I'm an arranger.

Now Albert is a cousin of yours right?

That's right.

So you have already known him for years, for ever.

For ever ­p; we grew up together.

How did you first meet Joe Gibbs?

I met Joe Gibbs through two reasons. By an information and most enthusiastically by a vision. However when I met him it was the same person.

So you knew he was coming?

Yeah, I expected him. He was no surprise.

How soon after you met him did you record "This Time"?

Same time. As I met him he was ready to work, because he heard what he was looking for. To me he was there with his production manager, which was Blacka Morwell at the time, and he encourages them to try with us. Well Errol Thompson's statement was that we were countrymen. Then Blacka Morwell turns and said to him, 'Tell me something. Who is the baddest men in Kingston? The countrymen!'

Did you have a good relationship with Errol Thompson?

Yeah, he is only a little bit teasing. When I say teasing, you know I like people like those, because they put me on my toes. On the other hand he is the mastermind behind my financial downfall where Joe Gibbs is concerned, because Joe Gibbs himself is just a nothing.

Tell me a little about the DJ Bo Jangles (recorded the "Two Sevens Clash" deejay 45).

Let me say I don't know anything about his domestic affairs, and then it would not be any of my business to discuss his domestic. But, from what I know from the musical side of him, in that time he was always a person who was interested to let his voice be heard. Whether he had financial aspirations at the back of his brain that are not welcome to my business, I didn't know about that. He was always trying. After a time I would say he faded out, because I'm not hearing him.

Somebody told me he was a photographer.

I didn't know that much.

Somebody tells me he takes pictures, but I don't know that for a fact. Tell me a little about this album called Africa Stand Alone. Who produced those sessions and what happened to that record?

A bunch of thief lying there in New Jersey, which may think I am dead. I'm not yet dead. So I guess he is always on the look out and always have a hidden factory somewhere there out in New Jersey called April Records.

Every now and then you still see that record floating around.

Right, now to any person that can bring forward the address and telephone number of that place, the proper one ­p; hey!

That's information you want.

That's right.

Because these people don't have the rights for this music.

I am prepared to pay from the same loot a quarter of it to the person who find them, and the group will split the rest.

So it was a very bad situation?

Oh yeah. You see I don't love even to talk about, because it's like dragging me back. Some past you don't try to remember them. Some things you try and put them in the back, so that you can progress.

How did you meet Sonia Pottinger?

Because of the disorderly conduct of Joe Gibbs, it forces me to seek physician musically.

You released an incredible amount of singles on the High Note label. You must have had a positive working relationship with Sonia and Errol Brown.

Oh yeah.

How was Errol Brown different from working with Errol Thompson?

Quite a different person. The exact difference that I discover hereafter, I didn't discover it at the time, because at the same time it was a process. As the years of maturity has grown, and I'm looking between the two persons, it was a lot easier to work with Errol Brown than Errol Thompson. Because Errol Thompson loves to dictate while Errol Brown loves to cooperate.

There is a big difference there. Joseph, tell me a little bit about the story behind the lyrics to "Natty Never Get Weary." You were arrested? Was this in Stoney Hill Square?

No, it's Golden Hill Square. What really happened was I got up early in the morning (on) two important occasion. One was that I was on the point of getting a passport through, so I went towards picking it up. And at the same time I had an appointment in the studio to do some voicing.
Well, apparently I went to the studio first, because Mrs. Pottinger was the person who was assisting us in the penmanship, so I went to her first and told her what was my schedule for the day. She said: 'Well then I'm going to cut one, because I have your passport here, so go to the studio and do what you are doing and be back home.' So I said 'Okay, thanks.' So I went to the studio, did what I have to do.
At about 2 p.m., I was back in my air. I didn't have a car at the moment, and something had happened to my motorcycle. So I took a bus that day. Just as I stepped off the bus, I saw a little gathering, you know, like when something lately happen ­p; little hassle. A little hassle looking crowd gathered.
Well, I didn't draw near the crowd because I just came. Because where the crowd was standing up and where I was, like about a half a train apart, but it was guidable. So, myself and two ladies, you know two little noses, was there questioning me, asking me where I was coming from. So I said, 'No problem, I just getting out of the studio.' And they ask me about the rest of the boys and all the rest of it. We were having a little brief chat.
Then like from the time you ask me the question until this time, when I'm trying to clear myself, down comes the police from the opposite direction which is Stoney Hill ­p; where I'm coming from. And they passed us and went down the road and in a short while they came and SCREECH OF TIRES! Like something went wrong just where we were. And we saw the police start coming out. Told me to put my hands in the air and all the rest of it, and I was interrogated the most way.
I asked, 'What happened?' and nobody could tell me, couldn't tell me exactly what is going on. Next thing I know I should be going into the jeep. Simply because I know I did nothing, I meekly went in. They took I to the jail, and I stayed there and that was what I wrote.

So how long did they keep you?

For a couple of hours.

For no reason?

For no reason. So I felt badly about that, because even the police himself would have felt worse, because he knows he is supposed to know the law more than I do. If I am a person who is daft to the law, to a certain extent, and I can feel bad, then I guess he would feel worse about that.

In the early 1980's, you and the Mighty Diamonds, The Itals, recorded an LP record called Calling Rastafari for Nighthawk Records.

That's right.

How did that come about? Did Robert Schoenfeld approach you for that project?

Yes, but at the same time, I don't know. I need to ask a question: What is going on with that record?

I don't understand what you mean.

OK, I am not seeing it in the local market. It is a good time now I have not seen Robert Schoenfeld.

He is still in St. Louis. I have spoken to him on the phone. He told me he is trying to put it out on CD ­p; sometime this year because it has never been released on CD. He is just starting to get things going again there now. It's a very good record.

Yes it is, but you see, what I can not tolerate with any record company, nor big nor small. I do not like when the artists' work is being taken and not being distributed properly to the public. Because in that sense the music gets no justice. Off the stream of financial terms now, forget about finance, we are talking about the music showing to the people. Shut your eyes to the greed and talk about the need. Did not get any justice.

Tell me about the BBC recordings and how meeting John Peel went in England.

It's like a thing with most major groups in Jamaica, like myself and Wailers. It's like memorial records that we all do. I'm going through two sessions ­p; two separate sessions already. From what I know, it's like proving to the public that it's a lot better live.

I also wanted to ask you a little about this song on Lion Rock called "Elijah." You describe an incident on that song about being on an airplane. Tell me a little about that.

It's like it is. I have nothing more to say. A plane lift up in the rainy weather, through lightning, trying to force something. Jah show then that he is the boss. But, he did not pursue doing what could be done ­p; a lot more could be done in that short moment, but mercy was the most thing that was shown that time.

It was just a touch.

Just a touch.

How did it come that you and Kenneth and Albert reformed in the mid-eighties after a period where you did not work together?

Well, it was on the mercy side again. Because for me I'm on a journey and who so ever will, may come, right? You or Kenneth or who-so-ever even happen in the Wailers or any other group. It happened to Chi-Lites, every other main group.
There is always one member who thinks that he is working too much, and that is always a lie. Think of if I was thinking that I was working too much. How much work would be done in Culture?

Not Much?

Not Much.

With Dub Mystic things are sounding very fresh right now. Are you planning to tape anything for a live album?

Oh yes, that's for sure. We are thinking about something spectacular.

And a video as well for something on the new album?

Straight up! Straight up on One Stone.

In what countries are you most well received now? In Europe ? In Africa?

Europe and Africa...definitely.

Dean Pond (Culture's current drummer) told me you did some very big shows in Sierra Leone.

Yes.

Have you played Africa lately?

No. At least not ever since Sierra Leone.

Was the Culture in Culture LP the first time you ever worked with Enos McLeod?

I will tell you something. Enos McLeod only get his name on something. That another Kingston hustler. Enos McLeod never produce nothing with me! Enos McLeod was working with Mr. Ranglin (GG Records) ­p; he carries around tape.
For me Enos McLeod was only looking for something. At the time when Enos McLeod was there, right, I already gone through the experience of Two Sevens Clash. I've already gone through International Herb, I've already gone through Cumbolo. Enos McLeod was only on his way trying to copy his fourth 45. The first song that Enos McLeod did was written by Delroy Wilson. Those guys cannot talk with me! We are not companions musically! Big men are big men in music and boys are boys!

So I won't expect you and GG to do anything in the future.

(Laughter)...Don't expect that.

With "Capture Rasta" and songs particularly on Three Sides To My Story, you proved that modern dancehall can sound good...

Clean!

... and have good lyrics at the same time.

Yeah, yeah, unprofane lyrics. Unprofane!

I heard a dubplate you recorded for Jammy's a couple of years ago. Do you make many specials?

Yeah, the people always chase me to make specials.

Have you made any recently?

Yeah.

Who was that for?

This bloke called Turbo Phonic ­p; that's the name of another discotheque in Jamaica.

Do you still own a sound system yourself?

Yes, still under the name Channel 7. The reason why it is called 'Channel 7' ­p; seven letters form Culture. (Laughter)

Who are the younger guys you like out there now? Is there any of the younger guys that you like?

Oh Yeah.

Luciano maybe?

Luciano to be sure, Aaron Silk, which is Garnet Silk's brother. I like Everton Blender. I like Buju Banton. I love Capleton. Can't remember now, but there are quite a few guys who are aiming in the right part ... Prezident Brown ...them guys like them.