I saw you at Reggae On The River three weeks ago in California
and thought that was tremendous show, and it was a tribute I thought
seeing so many people stay that late on a Sunday night. When you
played "Play Jerry" [early in the set] I thought it
was great, because you're singing almost about a circumstance
just like what I'm looking at out in the crowd. So I want you
to talk about the link that you're making with the Grateful Dead
and reggae music and how this connection came together.
The first step of the connection is when I sing over the song Estimated Prophet. They were doing this like donation something. (Deadicated album). So they were looking various artists to sing over they tracks. I was one of the person wherein Jerry call on thinking that the song Estimated Prophet would be the right song for Spear to do. When I get the call I also get the lyrics and the melody.
Did you know of the Grateful Dead before [that] time?
No, I usually just hear about them, never see them, never listen to their music. And I check the lyrics over and the lyrics was clean. It was lyrics wherein I myself would write. So I decided to do it. That was my first time getting into Grateful Dead. Since that time, I've been to two of their concerts. I like the concert. I like the way they perform. I also like the songs wey they were singing. So after the absentness came about with Jerry. He loose his life. I was working on the album Appointment With His Majesty, so I decided to do a tribute to Jerry as a man who did sing over Estimated Prophet. So I did this song I call "Play Jerry." And it's on the album Appointment With His Majesty.
The name the Grateful Dead . . . It seems kind of strange to me. I hear so many times Rastamen say, 'Rasta don't deal with death.' So it seemed kind of strange to me that there's this cross connection.
It's there you know. People will say a lotta of thing. The name Grateful Dead is not like you're dealing with death. That's their name. Everybody have a different name in the music business as artist or musician. They choose to have a name by the name of Grateful Dead. It's totally different from somebody would be speaking of a different level of death.
I want to go through some of the tracks on the album that struck me when I was listening to it. It takes a time when I listen to an album. Some songs will come to me, hit me first, and the first ones that hit me on this are the title track, Appointment with His Majesty. Talk about the concept of making an Appointment With His Majesty.
You see, Appointment With His Majesty is really outstanding for I as a Rastaman, African Jamaican. I think it's an appropriate track. I think it's an appropriate title. For in the 90s, like 91, my first album in the 90s was Mek We Dweet (Make We Do It), so by 'doing it' the second album was Jah Kingdom -- we're talking about in the 90s. So, 'make we dweet in Jah Kingdom.' The third album was The World Should Know. So, the world should know that we been doing it in Jah Kingdom. Then we move on to Rasta Business. Sey Rasta business take place in Jah Kingdom. And to administrate Rasta business, we need to make an appointment with His Majesty, so before we could discuss a lot of thing. So we got to make an appointment with his majesty within our own way of making our appointment with his majesty.
So I also gather that you're saying within a song like "Glory Be To Jah," that people can make the appointment with His Majesty in a different way.
"Glory Be To Jah," that's another track, for Glory Be To Jah, it's one Creator. Then regardless some might call him Allah, some call him Christ, some call him Lord of Lords, and there's no such thing like two creator upon creation, regardless what religion you believe in or what religion you involve in, it's one creator. So many times, people intend to make it look as if there are various kind of creators, which is not so. You see the people call the Creator different name in their own way. People label these name in their own way. So, it shouldn't be a problem if I&I say 'Jah Rastafari' in our own way, is the same Creator.
Some people say that you can only call one name, which can't be the truth. Some people will try to say that He only can be named by one name, which can't be true. But it's very important, I think, in how reggae can be accepted by a lot of people. Don't you think? You can live it how it comes to you.
Of course it's good when reggae can be accepted by all the people of the world, regardless color or race. Is like many other music been accepted by all the people of the world, regardless color or race. I see reggae music as like any other kind of music. Reggae music should look upon like any other music. Reggae music should get it respect like any other music. It should also be played like any other music. But of course I know its not been played like any other music. For some radio station wouldn't play reggae, period. Some TV station wouldn't deal with reggae, period. But I think it classify to be music like any other music. It carry different melody or different arrangement or different lyrics, but it still music. And it's music wherein draw the world attention. These [radio] station should have a section within they program for reggae like they have a section for rock, blues, rap, and all music. I think that is how it should be, but who is I to say these people got to do this. This is just how I think.
In the whole State of Nebraska, the radio station that I deejay at is the only station that has reggae, and only a couple hours per week. It's a community radio station. That's where you tend to find it.
Hip-hop play on various radio station, so I think reggae should play on various radio station too. For today a lot of hip-hop singers take a little from reggae music and combine it with what they do. A matter of fact, today there are so many different kind of musician wherein occupy a piece of reggae within whatever they do . . .
And you approve of that. . .
Yea. I see it and I hear it. And those kind of music even get more attention on the radio station and the TV station more than reggae music do. You see what I'm saying?
Of course. The programmers they are afraid of what's gonna happen if they play pure reggae. . .
No one should be afraid and no one don't have to be playing pure reggae, but at least you could blend in reggae within in the program. So at least if today you're going to be playing 36 record, you know . . at least six will be reggae within the rest. So therefore, reggae would be there. Sometime equality don't really mean for one and all, sometime, in some industry or some development. Equality mean for individuals. So some station wouldn't play reggae equally like pop, or even say, rap, or rock, or blues, or whatsoever it is.
Reggae in the United States now is not selling to the extent . . . I know that your records have done very well with Heartbeat, but I think even Heartbeat's other artists may not be doing as well. Do you perceive what I'm perceiving or do you know what I know about the labels having trouble these days selling and having a market in the United States?
I aware of some of these things. Some of these companies having problem with what they suppose to be doing. Then again, some of these companies can even do more and some of these company can also do better if they want to. If they want to reach out and draw the attention of the public, having these records selling more, they can if they want to. For promotion is the key. In everything you're doing. If you don't create that promotion strategy, that marketing strategy, they you ain't doing anything. Sometime some company create promotion strategy and marketing strategy, but to a long distance. They just do it to (cull) back whatsoever they put out as expense plus a little profit on their expense. And then they stop it there. For they are not into it to really build the artist. They are into it .. . spending a money, making a money, on your money, and that's it. That is how some company believe. And some company just work to that mention, or that distant. When some company don't even reach to that distant. Then other company go all out. They go all out, not because they think that the music is the right music, because is the music that drawing the attention at this time. So they invest as much as they can. They know that they will gain. Some company know that they can gain, but they don't care, cause they don't believe in the kind of music or believe in that music at that time.
So in this idea, in this concept, you must feel very good about the work that you've done with Heartbeat, because what you're describing . . .They are a company that cares very much about your development. Just based on the way they represent you. Don't you think so? I mean, realistically, you can't speak about Heartbeat in a bad way, but . . .
Of course, there is company that care about Spear, but which company. We have to point a little finger now, if we're going to talk about what company care about Spear. Island was there, and I was there. EMI was there and I was there. Slash was there and I was there. Those people didn't care about Spear and didn't care about Spear music. If they did care about Spear and Spear music, Spear would be bigger than what him is today. For that would be more in the earlier time of Spear, but they only care as I did say before. . . they spend a dollar, and they get back they dollar plus a dollar on they dollar. If we gonna talk about company who care about Spear, I would give Heartbeat the credit. For even though I was there with Island. Island didn't do what Heartbeat do. Island do what they have to do in they own way. They do as much as what they think they should do for Spear. So I would give Heartbeat the credit for doing what they have to do and do what they can do for Spear. And I could identify it and I could approve of it. I get started in the business 1969. And no company away from Heartbeat ever does three video from an album for Burning Spear, come on! You have to give a man his credit when his credit is due. And Heartbeat does that. Today, and even the day before today, I always thinking that it's best to deal with a small company, more than these big major company. When you're dealing with these big major company, not having a PR person there for you, you're not getting no place. When you deal with the small company, they spend more time dealing with the artist. Especially dealing with the artist who they think drawing as much attention, so therefore they could do what they have to do, so they can sell record, and everybody would be feeling pleased about whatsoever going down.
Interesting. Yea. I see you've done a lot more work with Heartbeat than with everyone else and you seem to have a steady routine now established where you can put out an album, you can do a tour, they can do a video, and it's stable for your development.
With Heartbeat, I separate the touring. I'm in control of my touring through Burning Music Productions. Heartbeat is in control of the whole distribution of Burning Spear product -- albums and stuff like that. And as I did say before, when you have a PR person in the company, you as an artist feel more relaxed, cause at least you have a person can call upon at any time and question that person. That person can call you, ask you how you think, what you would like get done and stuff like that, and before Garret be a part of Heartbeat, this kind of work never usually exercise itself the way it exercise itself now, since Garret became a part of Heartbeat as an employee. I believe Garret do a lot of good things on Spear, regardless that he's not the main man. Regardless the company is not his company. I think he play a strong role within the company for the company.
He was the one who called the magazine and said let's put Burning Spear on the cover.
You know wha I'm saying?
So that's how it goes. Yea. Respect to him. Before I get to far out a field. I want to get back and ask some more questions about specific tracks on the album. Asher, a year ago here in Omaha, gave me a copy of the single you released in Jamaica, "Don't Sell Out." Who were you worried about in Jamaica selling out . . . What is the sell out?
I'm not talking about Jamaica you know. "Don't Sell Out" is universal. It's not like the song base up on Jamaica, dealing with Jamaica people or Jamaica politicians. It's not like that. This song is an open song. It can be any island. It can be any country. It can be any place. So it's not like I'm singing about "Jamaica, don't sell out." But there are so many places today selling out. Could be any island, any country.
Cause you refer to things in the song that are talking . . . remember your Afro-slave yard. . .
Afro-slave yard. Most of these island got Afro-slave yard. Many hundred years ago, they were like transporting slaves to all these islands. All these islands in the Caribbean, the West Indies, they were like just pushing slave here, there and everywhere.
So you're talking about 'remember your history' -- Marcus Garvey type of ideas like remember where you're coming from even if there was pain there.
Remember your history. You got to.
That's a beautiful track and the other thing about it. I can't recall knowing your work to the extent that I do, that you've done a track in that kind of Nyabinghi style almost. Is that an accurate statement to make? Very slow with percussion.
It's more like an a capella style, [but] yea, it have that flavor. For we do some drummings on it. Yea.
So why did you pick that one as a single to release specifically on a 45 for the Jamaican people?
Well, I don't really release it for Jamaican people. I release it in Jamaica. [laughs]. That's what I do. I release the album in Jamaica, but chiefly when you release a single in Jamaica, it still leave Jamaica anyhow and go in different places. But that time that single release in Jamaica. We have to remember that Jamaica is the first place wherein people could identify whatsoever we do, musically. We get started in Jamaica. It's not like when we get started in the business we get started in America. So Jamaica people is the first set of people who could identify whatsoever we were doing musically. So at all times, you have to remember Jamaica when it come to the music by releasing records, for there are lots of music release outside Jamaica where today Jamaica people never heard those kind of music.
I understand that to be true and it's surprising, because you would think that anything that was recorded at Channel One, in such time, was something that was happening in Jamaica. It might have only gone straight to England.
That's what I'm saying. So many music today, if you carry to Jamaica and play it, people would ask you. Where did this music do, where? And all this music record in Jamaica. But after it record it just leave Jamaica and people in Jamaica didn't even get to hear the music.
Are all of your albums available in Jamaica?
No. But that's what I was about to say. I myself have a lot of music wherein just never release in Jamaica. A lotta music for Burning Spear never release in Jamaica.
When did you move from Jamaica to Brooklyn, Brooklyn? Where do you live?
I'm living in Queens. It go on like eleven, twelve years now. I coming into the states from like in the 70s, 75.
Touring you mean . . .
Touring, back and forth, you know, chilling out and stuff like that. But living in America now is due to my business. My business license in America and pay tax in America. So I got to be where the business is.
But you did have the Burning Spear label. I'm picturing it in my head with . . . it said 'Spear' on it.
I still have my label. The label exercise itself back in Jamaica and the Caribbean.
Do you have somebody in St. Ann's who does work for you? Or do you go back down there and do it yourself?
Tuff Gong do the distributing on that level there.
We're on a subject now that is perfect because of the next song, "African Jamaican." And we're talking about you coming here [America], and I understand that when an artist, and this is maybe more of something that happens to a dancehall artist, but being current and being in touch with what the Jamaican people are thinking right at the time and singing something very current, being right there in the community setting is part of what makes a dancehall artist popular. So when, and this may be not even relevant to you, but when you really did leave in the mid-80s to spend most of your time here, do think that your level of recognition in Jamaica dropped or changed in any way?
I don't think my level recognition really drop or wear out in Jamaica, because of living in America. Living in America, I visit Jamaica four or five time for the year. Musically, I still record in Jamaica. Live performance, no. Might perform like every other year on Sunsplash but that's about it.
Do you feel that the people still come to the extent that they always did to see you at Sumfest, or how are the crowds?
I never happen to work on Sumfest, but anytime that I do Sunsplash, people always be there.
Do the faces look older or do you still get the youth.
Still have a lot of mixture of faces. Older faces, young faces. It's a mixture of faces turn out. When I go to Jamaica at any time.
The song "African Jamaican" is my favorite song off the new album so far. I see a picture here in my mind of you at customs and they maybe don't recognize you and give you a hassle. What was the situation that inspired this song. There's more to it than that . . .
You see, they don't care about recognize who you is when you going into Jamaica, as an African Jamaican leaving the States going back to Jamaica. They don't care about that. They don't show you that kind of respect. We know this man, this man is Mr. Rodney. He is a big Jamaican recording artist going international. They don't give you that kind of credit or that kind respect to be truthful.
That of course must bother you.
Of course it bothers I to know that I'm an African-Jamaican born in Jamaica, live in Jamaica, still do business in Jamaica. Still spending back money in the country. They don't care who you is. How big you is, how important you is. What kind of upliftment you do for the island or country. They don't care about that. Once they see you looking like an African-Jamaica, it's their duty to hassle you.
As an AFRICAN-Jamaican.
And many times I going back to Jamaica, I been hassled. And I think I been hassled without a cause. I can remember sometime, me and one of my son was going down and I was traveling with a bag smaller than that bag [bag]. And they got this big sign, "Nothing To Declare." And my bags was so small, so I thinking that this is the correct line to go in, cause I don't have anything to declare. And this officer would stop me and would take my bag and send over there to get it search and all these people would pass with three four suitcases, people they classify to be tourist or foreigner or guest. They would pass with all these big suitcase. All they say, 'go by, go by.' No hassling, no checking. And I as an African-Jamaican, with such a small bag been pull over.
And these [customs] people are African-Jamaicans themselves.
Of course these people who are hassling I are African-Jamaican. It hurt to know that we are African-Jamaicans. And they dealing with rules and regulations and laws and principles, but not overall for everyone. If you checking my little bag, why not checking all these tall suitcases. So they gave me the idea, they don't care about African Jamaican. They care about the people they classify to be tourists. For they thinking that these people bringing in income. They not thinking about my income where it always be there and always coming in. Not only in seasons. And sometime that really hurt. It's not like I'm the only person that really take place with. That take place with most African-Jamaican leaving foreign and going back to Jamaica. Some of those people been hassled more than I been hassled. So these people who is in control of this section saying nothing to declare. They are not using their judgment. They are not reasonable. I think the whole thing should structure that once you have a Jamaican passport, you shouldn't have to go through all these kind of checks. You just show your passport, you get your stamp and you go through. The people who really go in line to declare things, you check those people for they have something to declare. But when a man don't have anything to declare and him come in line, have such a small bag, even a big bag, nothing is in the bag to declare, you suppose to let through this person. I'm not against tourists or guests or foreigners.
You just want to be treated equally.
Of course. "My Island" is another interesting song. Who are you singing to here. . . 'you own all my rights. I want you to give me what is mine.'
Early on there is a lot people you would deal with in the music business. And you didn't [get] treated so properly. Some of these people is still around. And some of these people is from different country or different places. And they have this link in Jamaica where they go back and forth.
So, rights, you're talking about musical rights.
Musical rights. 'So you live on my island. You own all my rights. I want you to now, give me what is mine. If this is a musical war, I decided to fight. Fight for my rights.' So is not like a physical fight. [laughs].
Cause you're a peaceful man until it comes to music and then you can declare war.
Music. It's not like we're going out there to go hit nobody with fists or anything like that. It's more like an intelligent fight. Educational fight, musical fight.
Fela Kuti thought of music as a weapon. A lot of people think of music as a weapon.
But no force is stronger than music with the people. That's the two strongest forces you have upon creation. The system know that but many people don't study it.
It's true. It's why the system can never completely conquer. It puts people down for a while, and keeps them down, but it can never win.
[Laughs] Yea! No force. Even all these bombers what they have. These aircraft stuff and atomic [bombs], still not stronger than the music and the force of the people. That's the strongest force you got. The force of the music and the force of the people.
The last question about this album is the song "Loving You." I sense that Sonia Rodney is . . . from my talks with her, she runs a pretty tight ship back there for you. She does great work. Is this you're singing about her. Tell me about Sonia.
Well, Mrs. Rodney is my wife, getting close to 20 years now since we marry. Early on, she didn't play no role in the business section. There was an attorney. I realize the attorney wasn't such a clean and fair attorney.
A legal hustler.
He was just another legal hustler. Then again, he did some good work. You still have to give credit for the person. And give credit for the section of the work what he does good. He does some good work by setting up the business. He didn't do it for nothing. He didn't [get] paid. But after a while I thinking that the business should be controlled by I. So I decided to take over the business, so here comes Mrs. Rodney fitting in. Both of us start to work as a team. She does things wherein the attorney never do. She does things wherein no booking agent never do. She does a lot of thing wherein a lot of people wouldn't even think about doing it.
You're blessed to have such a woman.
Of course. So you have to give her as much credit as I can.
I see her name as executive producer.
Yes. So the song "Loving You," it is part Mrs. Rodney. It is part everybody.
Is not like the song really base up around Mrs. Rodney. She became a part of the song included everybody. All the people of the world became a part of the song.
I've noticed that . . . I've asked you a few questions, when you're singing 'you. . .' you really do a greater meaning.
You. I didn't say a name individual. I just say 'loving you is what I can.' So is like you would be saying the same thing to somebody else.
Interesting. I found a song that I feel is one of the most beautiful songs that I've ever heard from you and I want you to tell me if you can recall about it, called "This Population." It's one of your last Studio One songs. It's got an incredible melody to it. It's got Jackie Mittoo playing a beautiful keyboard on it.
'Through this population, we want more convenience.' It's true for I think the population each year grow. You have more people, more people and more people. And when the population grow, that mean you need convenience to accommodate people. You need more trade centers. So many thing, so people could fit in and become part of something which is good.
Who sang that song with you. It sounds like there's almost a duet going?
Through this population . . . I don't quite remember. I use so many different people do background vocals.
It's mixed real high with your voice. . .
Some of these songs, I'm the one doing background vocal too you know?
I don't think it's you. I wish I could play a recording of it. Do you have it at your home?
Yea, I think I have it at home. But I'm just saying that a lot of these songs, I'm the one go back and do three different harmonies. For I'm good at that.
If it's you, you faked me out.
[Laughter] It could be one of those brother who was there early on too.
Delroy Hines or Rupert Willington.
Yea, it could be.
It could have been Leroy Sibbles too. Or somebody else.
Yea, the Heptones usually do a lot of harmonies too. What we usually do harmony for each other. I would be holding harmony for Alton. Alton would be holding harmony for Heptones. Heptones would be holding harmony for me. Mr. Dodd usually just switch we around.
I 've heard you describe it as a musical college.
A special sound from that time. A couple of other things. I noticed when I saw you at Reggae On The River, it's like a vocal style, and then a dub style. And then all the tracks all the way through the set, it sounded like you were doing this, equal parts of vocal then you let the band jam it out, and you play your drums. Is this a new thing to have that much of that style all through a concert? I thought it sounded great that way.
I do some of my songs that way. And early on touring, I usually do it too, but not so often, but each time you have to come back with something different. You have to be creative. So I decided to do it now, so I myself get a little time to do some drummings and stuff like. The band get a little time to get flexible. And everybody get loose. And jam around here and there. I think it's great. I think it's unique, you know?
It sounds fantastic. Considering how much more consciousness of dub there is right now, it's nice to hear it in a live setting. I also thought the dub mix on Living Dub Volume Three was fantastic. I thought when you said you were going to do that. I thought it was kind of a risk, because Living Dub Volume 1 and Volume 2 are crucial among all dub albums. Those are two of the best dub albums ever. So you try and put Volume 3 up there and it really does hang. The man who had a hand in this is Barry O'Hare at the Grove. Tell me about what his story is and how he's come to be such a talented engineer.
I knew Barry from a longer time. Even before he became my engineer. When I went to Grove Studio, that was the first time seeing Barry and knowing Barry. The first time we worked, I did like the way he do what he have to do.
What was the first work you did with him?
I think the first work we do was Mek We Dweet. Mek We Dweet, Jah Kingdom, The World Should Know, Rasta Business, Appointment With His Majesty. We still working on an album right now too, it's name Calling Rastafari. We're working on that right now, going back in the studio sometime October. So I see Barry as a very humble engineer and he knew what he's doing. And when I go in the studio and sit with Barry, I feel pretty relax and I feel sure. We don't try to rush anything. We take our own time and do what we have to do.
I think it stands out on Living Dub Volume 3 is the track called "Remember." Right now it leaves my mind what the vocal of that is off of Rasta Business. Do you know which one I'm talking about?
Is it "Africa"?
No, I don't think so. It doesn't matter. What I was going to say is. The track in the vocal version didn't grab me, but when I heard the dub, it blew me out. I was like, boy this rhythm is amazing. And then I went back to the vocal, and I was like, yea, there it is. But he mixed up such an incredible sound. Sometimes if the vocal grabs you, the dub will grab you, but sometimes, you know?
[Laughs] yea . . . You see, I think it's very important when you can do some dub. Separate the vocal from the rhythm, so people can get to hear what the rhythm actually sound like. That is how it sound without the vocal. Sometime in the studio we working, we lock away the vocal and just listening to pure instrument going down. You get such a strong, nice sound.
That's the real roots of the music. 'The roots is in the rhythm,' I think Nelson Miller told me one time.
We also looking in the direction of putting out Volume 4 sometime.
Good. I hope you do it.
Maybe. I don't know if we're going to do it next year. Next year we might try to release a live album -- never can tell.
I'm going to let you get out of here soon, cause I'm taking more time than I originally intended. The other article I'm writing, I told you, Fela Kuti is going to be on the cover and I'm responsible for that. And I've been asking people who've worked with him closely, Michael Rose, Dennis Bovell, some other people over the years. I know that that loss must have meant a lot to you. Tell me about your friendship with Fela. I believe you toured with him.
How I get to know Fela. I usually just listen to Fela music and hear people talk about Fela, but we went to Africa. We were doing the Sunsplash tour in Africa. That was my first time I run into Fela. We actually meet Fela, Sunny Ade and ...
Do you remember what year that was?
That was. . . I think it was in the 80s. I don't know if it was 85 or 86, but it was someplace there.
After he was freed from prison.
Yea, long after. So we were doing this African tour. Seemed like these people back in Africa buy out a section of the Sunsplash thing. So we were going around Nigeria, all over like in West Africa.
Was it your first time to tour there?
No, I tour there before, and that is how I get to bump into Fela. I think Fela is a strong African singer. And I think the masses in Africa into what Fela do. For Fela hitting some strong point, some logical point, wherein no one else I think could hit those point, and his message was very strong within the music. I think is the best way to get across the message to the masses through the music, wherein it create less interference. Where people would be listening. It leave up to them to decide what they listening to. If its true or if it's not true. They have as much time to check it out to find out the real story behind what they're listening to.
Do you have a feeling for overall. Some people I talk to have been calling names like Miles Davis in comparison. Do you have an overall feeling for Fela's place in history at this point in time as you see it, as an African musician? How important was this man?
I think Fela was very important. By it plain to see that Fela very important. Because what Fela was doing musically. If Fela didn't important, they wouldn't try to break him down, because he was hitting some right point. And when you try to do the right thing, you will get a big fight. So it plain to see that you is doing the right thing and there's a lot of people don't want you to do the right thing, for they don't want the right thing to expose. So I think Fela was doing the right thing.
[Laughs]. For if you're doing the wrong thing, it create a big excitement. And there was no excitement when Fela was doing what so ever he was doing. It was like getting more fight than anything else. So it plain to see that he was doing the right thing.
And he lived. Someone like he and Peter Tosh, these people suffered the beatings and came back with more. You know what I'm saying? That's amazing how he kept on.
For once you stand for the right. You gwan haffe keep on do the right. If you stand for the right and start let the wrong thing interfere with the right, then you going down. You start to lose gravity. So once you stand for the right, you go down defending the right. It shouldn't be a problem. At least you know you go down defending the right.
He said that about his own work. That he wasn't afraid. He had no fear of repercussions, cause he knew . . .
That's what I'm saying.
Yea. That's all I want to get from you. You know I'm just warmed up now. I could ask you questions for another hour.
Copyright 1997 Carter Van Pelt
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