Horace, give thanks for the time today.
Yea mon!
This new album Living in The Flood, it feels like a lot of
effort went into the album compared to what I hear [generally
out of JA] these days.
We just went back in the studio. My idea was, 'I'm just gonna
record like I was twenty-five years ago.' We could have done computer
[programming], although a couple of the tracks we just overdubbed
the live drums.
There are not any players of instrument credited on the release.
Who are some of the studio musicians involved?
Clive [Hunt] didn't play anything on it. Some of the musicians
are from 809 Band. Some of them are from Chalice. We have independent
musicians, ones who you have to go for like Chinna [Smith]. You
have to find Melchezideck. And the guy that played harmonica on
about two songs. He's a small lickle Rastaman, but him bad mon!
. . . I can't remember his name, but it's the first I see him.
When Clive brought him to the studio, I don't remember seeing
him before.
Was Val Douglas involved?
Who?
I thought Val Douglas was the 809 bass player?
Mmm, bwai I tell ya the truth, the guy that was playing the bass,
I know I know him, through travelling so much, I didn't really
ask who his name was, cause him see me and him say, 'Sleepy, whappen?!'
like someone who know me.
Right. How long did all the tracks take to get together?
About six weeks.
That's longer than people tend to spend on a reggae album in
these times.
I spend three years getting it together . . .
With the writing?
Yea. I was waiting on Massive Attack. Waiting on them to come
up with the funds.
Who are some of the other writers?There's a [Ms. Jerry] Burns
credited . . .
Right, [Ms. Jerry] Burns. She's a pop artist. She sent the lyrics
to me. When she heard it, she couldn't believe I did it like that.
She also sings it in a pop style.
It seems like a different subject matter for a Rastaman to
approach?
You know the meaning of it?
I understand from the credit that it's about someone who's
contemplating suicide. That's why I said it's a subject matter
that I don't hear Rasta sing about very often, or ever . . .
That's a beautiful song man.
How would you rate this album in its importance to your career?
Number one man! I think this one is my best so far.
Over the years, in the 90s . . .the bio that your label sent
out says you haven't done an album in ten years, but I've gotten
these Mad Professor albums. You've recorded through the 90s right?
Well, that wasn't original songs. That's what we mean. I sit down
with my original songs [this time], and I start from scratch.
Those were rhythms [with Mad Professor]. After I did it, I realized
Macka B, every other artist was singing on the same one. You can't
have ten lp with the same rhythms.
That's become the norm in Jamaica for economic reasons.
You have ten albums, ten different singers and them singing on
the same rhythms. That's really . . . I think [lack of] originality.
But it's also part of the process . . . even if you go back
25 years, rhythms were still recycled then. And sometimes there's
a process . . . I mean I don't want to defend that process but
sometimes, even with some of the great Bunny Lee rhythms you did,
you might find a Barry Brown on the same rhythm that would be
wicked too.
That's what Bunny Lee them do still. Other artists might say,
'can I sing on that rhythm?' But I love to create my own.
People outside of the Jamaican circle will appreciate that
more.
Can you also comment on the colaberative process of having a group
of musicians working on a production versus what's developed with
computer, cause one person can create an album with a drum machine
and computer.
One person can. I can, I have done it. But I don't want to go
on that street. I want to stay the original way. Though I've done
it myself. Right now I have a brand new Akai MPC2000XL. So you
know what I'm thinking.
But you can probably use that for composition.
But the sound that you put inside of it, through what I'm hearing,
it's really really, it sounds so live.
It's an unusual thing anymore to hear someone playing the drums
on a reggae album. It's refreshing.
Yes. And Clive, he didn't protest. He went ahead with everything
I said.
Clive's brought some fresh stuff forward. I don't know if you
heard the album he just put out with Culture.
I heard some of the tracks. I was there. I stopped my work during
the day, two, three days, just to get Cutlure them things going.
I wouldn't voice in the morning. I would go in at like five o'clock
when they finished and Foundation was there also. He done some
tracks with Foundation. It's gonna be wicked when you hear it.
Clive's history overlaps with Bullwackies when you were there
too. Other than that, had you had a production history with him?
No. We've been wanting to do this long time ago, but it just happened.
My perception is that he hadn't been doing much music production
before the last couple years. And he started to get back into
it more.
He was doing it more. Have you heard about PierPolJack? And he
did Alpha Blondy. He do Jimmy Cliff.
It seems like he's kicked it up into high gear a little bit
more recently though. But he seems also committed to, by bringing
Horsemouth in, to having a live production sound again.
Clive is brilliant man. We call him music.
His work on the Abyssinians was one of the best sessions ever.
Brilliant, yea.
The working title of the album was Seven Seals.
Yes, the reasons why we changed was that Anthony B brought out
Seven Seals. So I say let's go with Living In The Flood.
That's another one of my favorite tracks.
3D from Massive, he grew up with Joe Strummer. Joe Strummer is
his idol. I didn't know about Joe Strummer. I was still in Jamaica
or America [when the Clash was popular]. They brought a Clash
song to me. One of the Clash songs, he was singing about the Vietnam
War. That's the first time I heard that song. It was so-so, in
between on the balance. I liked it to an extent, but I really
didn't want to do over a song. So they scrapped it. My management
contacted Joe and say if Joe would do a collaberation with me.
And Joe was really happy. That's how "Living In The Flood"
came about. He sent the rhythm and the lyrics.
It's interesting how these things come full circle with Massive
Attack. I never really understood why the punk movement embraced
reggae so much, but still to this day, it's still to the benefit
[of reggae] to this day. That cross pollenization is still being
seen because of your work with Massive Attack. And have you seen
that Half Pint is working with this group, the Long Beach Dub
Allstars?
No?
In the same fashion that you work with Massive Attack, he's
on the road with this reggae/punk group from California. And it's
revitalized his career.
That's good man!
It's good, cause a lot of the time, the mainstream is intimidated
by reggae, and they don't know where to start. Cause it's a broad,
deep kind of music.
So where are you calling from?
I'm from Nebraska.
Nebraska? So you've heard the album?
Yea, they sent it out last fall, so I've had it on an advance.
I think I started playing it on the radio in September.
From last September? Wicked!
When did it come out in England?
It was released in October.
The copy that I got was dated September 9th. I think they sent
over some promo copies from England. It was sequenced differently.
Right, we changed it round. Because the end of the album has to
be strong.
The way it's sequenced now, the front end is loaded with traditional
reggae tracks.
Yea, I put the love songs in the middle and made it strong at
the end. And the hidden track, you found the hidden track?
I just found it! [Laughter]
[Laughter] It was there all the time!
That advance I was telling you about, it's not on there. So
when I got it, I thought I've heard all this, except for the remix
of "After All." Right? And it's at the end of the remix.
It must be that every time I'd listen to it to the end, I got
up and ejected the cd. Until this morning when I was out of the
room, and I heard it extra track [laughter].
Yea, and that's a wicked track. [Sings] 'Dance to the reggae beat.'
Eveyone say when the last song finished, they just plug it out.
They think the lp is finished. And just by coincidence, they didn't
go and stop it, and they just hear the song come on. And it frightens
you.
It surprises you. Some albums I've seen with hidden tracks,
they put a sticker on the front of the album that says 'hidden
track,' but they shouldn't do that. Then it doesn't come as the
surprise that it's supposed to be.
I was curious about this track "Don't Blame the Children."
In the context of the film Third World Cop. Have you seen that.
I went to see it, but it's like I can't go to movies, I just fall
asleep! I can't tell you anything. I went to see that movie. And
in the space of ten to fifteen minutes I was gone.
So they call you Sleepy.
Yea. If I take the lady to the movie, she complains all the time.
The subject you're dealing with there, it sort of rang true.
If you ever see Third World Cop again, I think the message of
that song . . . In Jamaica, there tends to be a glorification
of the "bad man." There's a cop and his friend from
youth in the ghetto, who is now a bad man, right? But the message
of the movie is that the bad man gets killed and the cop comes
out on top. But in reality both people would be dead, but they
don't show you that. They make a hero out of the cop. And it would
be bad in the same way to make a hero out of the gunman, in my
opinion.
You see it in every movie. That's why I say 'blame it on the t.v.
Blame it on the movies.' It's just always the same. The guy goes
out and kills a lot of people. He just kill everybody and come
back and get the girl. Everyone of them is the same.
It's just because it sells that way and it does a lot of damage.
People don't seem to care.
That song is about me. If you really listen to it.
Well, I hear you singing about when you were a youth, you wanted
to be like Claudie Maussop.
Right, Claudie Maussop was one of the Jamaica badman. And I used
to adore him. I wanted to be like him. Him and Burbwai??? Those
are the people who I grow up with. And we used to have board gun
and say 'a me a Claudie Maussop.'
Claudie died in the late 70s after the Peace Concert. But how
long did he run his area?
For years and years.
When did it come to you to say, wow, this person is not a good
example?
When I was nineteen, going [on] twenty. When I started going to
Ethiopian World Federation meetings. That's the Rastafarian meeting.
Someone just say, 'come, take a walk, leave out the company.'
That's was in 1968, 69. That was right at the beginning of your
recording career. I did record for Phil Pratt, Sunshot label,
that was 1966. But I couldn't sing them times mon. So I was just
practicing. As a kid growing up, everyone mischievious.
So you must have mixed up with some Rastamen at Studio One.
Yes, plenty mon. Studio One was the only studio that the Rastaman
could go. Studio One and Duke Reid. But they couldn't go to Dynamic.
Couldn't go to Federal.
No, you couldn't go inside of Federal with a spliff. Even on the
compound outside. That's why growing up I heard about Federal
-- battymon studio! Don't write it down! That's what they used
to say about Federal.
They came out with some good music too, but it wasn't on the
level . . .
But the Khouris. Jamaicans label you for anything. When you pass
up by Studio One, there used to be like 20, 40 guys come to audition.
People would pass and say, 'how much money fe deh place deh so?'
But they realize it's a studio. Guys turn up to sing. You used
to have more guys than ladies.
I have a couple more questions about the album specifically.
Before I forget, there are two other writers credited and I don't
know who they are. There's an M. Lee and an M. Stone. "Seven
Seals" and "Johnny Too Bad."
It's Clive. It's really me write the lyrics, but I just give him
some of the publishing, cause it's his rhythm.
On the album it says 'Hinds, Clive Hunt, and M. Lee' on "Seven
Seals."
Right, I gave it to them cause it's his rhythm. That was rhythm
that Clive said hadn't come out. But then I heard PierPolJak was
on it. But I still in good faith man, cause the rhythm was good.
So I just give him a third, cause I think that's reasonable.
Compared to a lot of other singers who have been in the business
for a long time, you seem to have kept the tonal quality of your
voice very similar to the old days. On this album, if I compare
it to twenty-five years ago, your voice has not aged noticeably.
How do you keep it . . .
I tell you the truth. Nuff exercise. I love weights. I don't go
to the gym everyday, but I have the weights where I am. I eat
honey, and lemon . . . and garlic.
But you still smoke herbs?
Yes, yes. Yes, you know that! I love natural tea, anything bitter,
I really love. Because what is bitter to the mouth is sweet to
the belly. Bitter tings will take out all the tings that is supposed
to come out but don't come out.
What's that root called, bizzie?
Bizzie, yea. Some people boil it and drink it and it's good for
the blood. So you don't have diabetes. That's why some people
are diabetic, because they don't purge the blood. It's good to
eat a grapefruit sometime, more than orange, although the orange
is good, cause the orange is natural sweet. But the grapefruit
is bitter. And it will purge your blood.
On the subject of maintaining the voice, I saw Junior Byles
less than years ago, and his voice was gone.
Because he's sick man, and he's not singing. If you don't keep
singing, it will go away. He's not singing because he's sick.
It was really sad, and I bet he doesn't drink honey. I love honey,
man, I love it. I need to take care of my voice.
Seriously, it sounds just as sweet as it did back in the day.
I don't think you'd be able to maintain your career without keeping
your voice. On the subject of live performances, you don't seem
to actively do tours in the States.
It will happen soon. You heard about Gomez? Well, it's the first
I heard about them. They're saying they want me to tour with Gomez.
I've never heard of them. Where are they from?
From England. So it would be really good. If it's going to happen,
I don't know as yet. They say they're waiting on them to confirm
it. But I will be doing things.
But your stage shows have been with Massive Attack?
Yea. But on my own you will love it.
Well, I saw the show in California last year, which was great.
But when you see me with my own band, then you will see the right
thing. My band has two ladies. The bass player is a lady and she
is wicked. We call the band Whop'Dem.
I have two more questions for you. I've run across three versions
of "Ain't No Sunshine" by Bill Withers that you've done.
You must have a love for that song.
I love that song. When Ken Boothe did it, I love it to death.
Oh Ken Boothe's version is the best!
Yes. But I have a Studio One version. Mr. Dodd ask if I can sing
it over and I did it. He used to come with the song and say, 'do
you love this song,' and I'd say yea!
Horace man, give thanks. It's been a pleasure.
Yes, mi breddah, don't forget, just keep it up same way like me
a do. Alright mi breddah?
Me nah stop!
One love.
Blessed.
Copyright 2000 Carter Van Pelt
Carter Van Pelt produces and hosts 400 Years: Radio Free Mondo
on KZUM 89.3 FM in Lincoln, Nebraska and is a feature contributor
to The Beat and other fine magazines.